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Post by jun b on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:58 pm

for shopping,the maximum amount for NGAs, GOCCs is P100,000.00 but for small value procurement, the maximum amount is P500,000.00. Is the small value procurement covers construction materials such as cement, RSB and others for our infra projects.
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Post by engrjhez® on Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:28 pm

jun b wrote:for shopping,the maximum amount for NGAs, GOCCs is P100,000.00 but for small value procurement, the maximum amount is P500,000.00. Is the small value procurement covers construction materials such as cement, RSB and others for our infra projects.

NO.

Such are considered as regular office supplies and may only fall under SHOPPING when used under alternative methods. Small value procurement is simply an exception of Shopping.

53.9. Small Value Procurement. Where the procurement does not fall under Shopping
in Section 52 of this IRR and the amount involved does not exceed the thresholds
prescribed in Annex “H” of this IRR.

x x x
Shopping is to Goods as Small Value Procurement is to Services. There should be no mistaking the two. Very Happy
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Post by jun b on Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:20 pm

thank you very much forum members
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Post by venom.0420 on Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:17 pm

hi guyz,

could anyone please elaborate on the procedures of this small value procurement? I'm still reading the revised IRR and since the revised generic procurement manual isn't out yet, I'm not sure weather my interpretations are correct.

All I know is, it is one of the conditions in conducting negotiated procurement, and while public bidding is still the general rule, I can't help but to think that this could be very helpful in reducing the number of biddings we have every month (i.e., rental of service vehicles every 15 days, year round).

am I correct with my assumptions? if yes, what are the procedures in conducting it. thanks in advance!
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Post by engrjhez® on Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:07 pm

venom.0420 wrote:hi guyz,

could anyone please elaborate on the procedures of this small value procurement? I'm still reading the revised IRR and since the revised generic procurement manual isn't out yet, I'm not sure weather my interpretations are correct.

All I know is, it is one of the conditions in conducting negotiated procurement, and while public bidding is still the general rule, I can't help but to think that this could be very helpful in reducing the number of biddings we have every month (i.e., rental of service vehicles every 15 days, year round).

am I correct with my assumptions? if yes, what are the procedures in conducting it. thanks in advance!

If the rental of vehicles is an anticipated (or a regular thing in performance of regular functions), splitting such into repeated Small Value Procurements is a violation. Nawawala kasi yung fundamental concept of TRANSPARENCY and COMPETITIVENESS (Section 3). Parang nabanggit mo na yan somewhere in this forum before, right? Smile

SMV is just like Section 53.h in the old IRR. Submission, Receipt of Bids and Evaluations still apply. Kaya lang, unlike Public Bidding, wala nang timelines involve kasi accelerated bidding siya. In a sense, bidding pa rin kasi you have to invite bidders (for quotations). Yun lang, it is not required to have three (3) quotations. The requirement is at least three (3) invitations. Kung dalawa o isa lang nag-respond, okay pa rin. Very Happy
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Post by venom.0420 on Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:45 pm

engrjhez wrote:[justify

If the rental of vehicles is an anticipated (or a regular thing in performance of regular functions), splitting such into repeated Small Value Procurements is a violation. Nawawala kasi yung fundamental concept of TRANSPARENCY and COMPETITIVENESS (Section 3). Parang nabanggit mo na yan somewhere in this forum before, right? Smile

SMV is just like Section 53.h in the old IRR. Submission, Receipt of Bids and Evaluations still apply. Kaya lang, unlike Public Bidding, wala nang timelines involve kasi accelerated bidding siya. In a sense, bidding pa rin kasi you have to invite bidders (for quotations). Yun lang, it is not required to have three (3) quotations. The requirement is at least three (3) invitations. Kung dalawa o isa lang nag-respond, okay pa rin. Very Happy[/justify]

engrjhez,

d sya splitting sir, may limitations kasi ang DBM regarding rental of vehicles, maximum na ang 15 days, kaya we have no choice but to follow. are the invited bidders need not submit the first envelope sa NP-SMV? thanks! Very Happy
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Post by neestrevencion on Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:43 am

Sir engrjhez, you said 'Shopping is to Goods as Small Value Procurement is to Services. There should be no mistaking the two.' This is for smv after the new irr, 500k and below for services. Pero kung goods ang 500k and below, shopping sya NOT SMV. What happened sa 53h na pag 50k up ang services, cpb na sya?

Another what if, if we received RAD from PS-DBM na not available on stock at the moment ang various common office supplies (goods included in the app), costing 500k up? so, cpb na yun Very Happy yehey!
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Post by RDV @ GP3i on Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:38 am

neestrevencion wrote:Sir engrjhez, you said 'Shopping is to Goods as Small Value Procurement is to Services. There should be no mistaking the two.' This is for smv after the new irr, 500k and below for services. Pero kung goods ang 500k and below, shopping sya NOT SMV. What happened sa 53h na pag 50k up ang services, cpb na sya?

Another what if, if we received RAD from PS-DBM na not available on stock at the moment ang various common office supplies (goods included in the app), costing 500k up? so, cpb na yun Very Happy yehey!

I have to agree with you in disagreeing with engrjhez proposition that "Shopping is to Goods and Small Value is to Services", on the following points:

1. Small Value Procurement is applicable for Goods, Infra and Consulting Services as can be gleaned from Sec. 53.9.1 where the procuring entity, as a matter of procedure, shall draw up a list of at least 3 suppliers, contractors, or consultants;

2. The situation contemplated under Sec. 53.9, to wit: "Where the procurement does not fall under Shopping in Section 52 of this IRR", does not also limit SVP to services. There are situations that even tangible goods (not only services) would not fall under for Shopping, hence could also be procured under SVP.

For example, Shopping under Sec. 52.1.a has a lower threshold than SVP, that even if the conditions (unforeseen contingency requiring immediate purchase, and readily-available off-the-shelf goods) are present, you cannot procure it through Shopping because the ABC is above the threshold for Shopping but within the threshold for SMP.

Another example, one of the conditions for Shopping under Sec. 52.1.b is that you should be procuring "ordinary or regular office supplies or equipment" not available in the PS. What if you are procuring not an ordinary or regular office supplies and equipment? Sec. 52.1.b, therefore, would not apply, but SVP would.
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Post by neestrevencion on Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:52 pm

Sir RDV:
Quoting and underlining your example - "For example, Shopping under Sec. 52.1.a has a lower (Question )
threshold than SVP (500k and below),
that even if the conditions (unforeseen contingency requiring immediate purchase, and readily-available off-the-shelf goods) are present, you cannot procure it through Shopping because the ABC is above the threshold for Shopping but within the threshold for SMP. "

The threshold of SVP is 500K and below, and my 'what if' question is with abc 500k up, so cbp Question
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Post by RDV @ GP3i on Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:21 pm

neestrevencion wrote:Sir RDV:
Quoting and underlining your example - "For example, Shopping under Sec. 52.1.a has a lower (Question )
threshold than SVP (500k and below),
that even if the conditions (unforeseen contingency requiring immediate purchase, and readily-available off-the-shelf goods) are present, you cannot procure it through Shopping because the ABC is above the threshold for Shopping but within the threshold for SMP. "

The threshold of SVP is 500K and below, and my 'what if' question is with abc 500k up, so cbp Question

Of course, it should be Public Bidding, unless it would fall under other conditions for alternative methods, such as "Emergency Cases" under Sec. 53.2.
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shopping small value - small value procurement Empty What is now really SVP for services or both for goods and services

Post by jun b on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:32 pm

neestrevencion wrote:Sir RDV:
Quoting and underlining your example - "For example, Shopping under Sec. 52.1.a has a lower (Question )
threshold than SVP (500k and below),
that even if the conditions (unforeseen contingency requiring immediate purchase, and readily-available off-the-shelf goods) are present, you cannot procure it through Shopping because the ABC is above the threshold for Shopping but within the threshold for SMP. "

The threshold of SVP is 500K and below, and my 'what if' question is with abc 500k up, so cbp Question
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Post by jun b on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:39 pm

Its now complicated, Sir RDV. engrjhez said Shopping is to goods while SVP is for services. When we will procure materials for our projects with a PR not exceeding 500K, saan po ito ma belong. Shopping or SVP.
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Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:41 am

jun b wrote:Its now complicated, Sir RDV. engrjhez said Shopping is to goods while SVP is for services. When we will procure materials for our projects with a PR not exceeding 500K, saan po ito ma belong. Shopping or SVP.

First, you look at the following conditions for Shopping (under Sec. 52.1.b), whether these conditions for the materials you are going to procure, aside from the amount not exceeding P500,000, are going to be met:

1. The materials you are going to procure can be considered as "ordinary or regular office supplies"
2. It is not available in the Procurement Service;

If those conditions could not be met, then you can consider procuring these materials under the Small Value Procurement.
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Post by neestrevencion on Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:54 am

sir RDV, sec. 53.2. is "Emergency Cases. In case of imminent danger to life or property during a state of calamity, or when time is of the essence arising from natural or man-made calamities or other causes where immediate action is necessary to prevent damage to or loss of life or property, or to restore vital public services, infrastructure facilities and other public utilities. In the case of infrastructure projects, the procuring entity has the option to undertake the project through negotiated procurement or by administration or, in high security risk areas, through the AFP. "

my 'what if' question is, 'if we received RAD from PS-DBM na not available on stock at the moment ang various common office supplies (goods included in the app), costing 500k up? eh, say for the 3rd qtr and need the common office supplies, justified ba ito sa "..... or to restore vital public services...." to undertake the procurement through NEGOTIATED and NOT CPB? Question matagal kc ang CPB and will be intended for 3rd qtr ang supplies, and another pa, if these supplies are included in the quarterly price list of PS-DBM, tapos out of stock pala. Question

TYVM po, Sir RDV!
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Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:41 am

neestrevencion wrote:sir RDV, sec. 53.2. is "Emergency Cases. In case of imminent danger to life or property during a state of calamity, or when time is of the essence arising from natural or man-made calamities or other causes where immediate action is necessary to prevent damage to or loss of life or property, or to restore vital public services, infrastructure facilities and other public utilities. In the case of infrastructure projects, the procuring entity has the option to undertake the project through negotiated procurement or by administration or, in high security risk areas, through the AFP. "

my 'what if' question is, 'if we received RAD from PS-DBM na not available on stock at the moment ang various common office supplies (goods included in the app), costing 500k up? eh, say for the 3rd qtr and need the common office supplies, justified ba ito sa "..... or to restore vital public services...." to undertake the procurement through NEGOTIATED and NOT CPB? Question matagal kc ang CPB and will be intended for 3rd qtr ang supplies, and another pa, if these supplies are included in the quarterly price list of PS-DBM, tapos out of stock pala. Question

TYVM po, Sir RDV!

The determination of whether the situation ('what if' scenario) you are contemplating could fall or not within the purview of "Emergency Cases" is best left to the procuring entity to determine. I will not therefore say if you can pursue the procurement thru Negotiated Procurement under Sec. 53.2.

I will just mention here that the proper procedure has to be observed by the procuring entity. The proposed procurement has to be in the approved APP. If the original mode of procurement in the APP is public bidding (CPB) and you intend to procure it instead using any of the alternative methods of procurement, say, Nego Proc. under Emergency Cases, the BAC has to recommend the change in the procurement method, thru a BAC Resolution, to be approved by the HOPE. Once approved by the HOPE, you can already procure thru the alternative method and, subsequently, update the APP.
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Post by engrjhez® on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:21 pm

venom.0420 wrote:
engrjhez,

d sya splitting sir, may limitations kasi ang DBM regarding rental of vehicles, maximum na ang 15 days, kaya we have no choice but to follow. are the invited bidders need not submit the first envelope sa NP-SMV? thanks! Very Happy

Are you not considering buying a service vehicle instead of renting? If the case is that you will need it the whole year round, don't you think there are other ways you could avail the services at a more advantageous terms? Very Happy
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Post by engrjhez® on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:38 pm

RDV wrote:
I have to agree with you in disagreeing with engrjhez proposition that "Shopping is to Goods and Small Value is to Services", on the following points:

1. Small Value Procurement is applicable for Goods, Infra and Consulting Services as can be gleaned from Sec. 53.9.1 where the procuring entity, as a matter of procedure, shall draw up a list of at least 3 suppliers, contractors, or consultants;

2. The situation contemplated under Sec. 53.9, to wit: "Where the procurement does not fall under Shopping in Section 52 of this IRR", does not also limit SVP to services. There are situations that even tangible goods (not only services) would not fall under for Shopping, hence could also be procured under SVP.

For example, Shopping under Sec. 52.1.a has a lower threshold than SVP, that even if the conditions (unforeseen contingency requiring immediate purchase, and readily-available off-the-shelf goods) are present, you cannot procure it through Shopping because the ABC is above the threshold for Shopping but within the threshold for SMP.

Another example, one of the conditions for Shopping under Sec. 52.1.b is that you should be procuring "ordinary or regular office supplies or equipment" not available in the PS. What if you are procuring not an ordinary or regular office supplies and equipment? Sec. 52.1.b, therefore, would not apply, but SVP would.

OK, correction accepted. I may have been to familiar with the old IRR that i have precluded Sec.53.h, which we previously used for non-shopping procurement, is the father of SVP. But if we are pointing out a situation where we need to procure "non-regular office supplies" and using SVP as an accepted mode, then noon pa palang IRR-A pwede na rin goods under NP (Sec.53.h). We have an oversight on this since we do not have any procurement of non-ordinary office supplies without inclusion of of some services not covered by Shopping. Hence, we have not considered that case.

Anyway, to confirm that SVP is really a decendant of Sec.53.h will not make any sense na, hehe. Very Happy
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Post by engrjhez® on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:41 pm

jun b wrote:Its now complicated, Sir RDV. engrjhez said Shopping is to goods while SVP is for services. When we will procure materials for our projects with a PR not exceeding 500K, saan po ito ma belong. Shopping or SVP.

I apologize for the "trouble" my statement have brought. Please refer to the explanations of RDV regarding this matter. Your PR should be referring to a certain slot in your APP (as amended). The mode of procurement indicated there should easily answer your query (as recommended by the BAC and approved by the HOPE).
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Post by neestrevencion on Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:30 pm

Thanks very much, RDV! Very Happy
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