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REPEAT ORDER

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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:19 am

Sir engrjhez,
That is why I asked If the contract agreement can be conditional. That only those which are delivered are the only ones that will be paid subject to the 25% rule.

Sir marriola,
I answered yes. You could do several repeat orders provided no violation of the conditions aka splitting of contracts which I already explained .

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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by engrjhez® on Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:49 am

Ligaw na Binatog wrote:Sir engrjhez,
That is why I asked If the contract agreement can be conditional. That only those which are delivered are the only ones that will be paid subject to the 25% rule.

If you will ask me, I would definitely say YES, the contract can be conditional. Only contracts under public bidding is prescribed by the PBDs. I am not a lawyer but little that I knew from readings is that a contract is valid as long as no law, statute, or right is suppressed or violated. To me, both case may be correct, but my suggestion is simpler in execution. Very Happy
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by amang'65 on Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:56 pm

while indeed that there may be no violations if repeat order may be done several times provided that it does not exceed 25% of the original contract, etc, but in my point of view, this is a result of POOR PROCUREMENT PLANNING, rule II states that "...planning should be meticulously and judiciously done" meaning wisely and carefully, so therefore in your APP several repeat orders will be appearing there? eh kung ganon, you might have as well consolidated these so many repeat orders and come up with another public bidding!!! What's the idea of having so many repeat orders, its just a waste of time, tax payer's money and supplies kasi ganon din you'll have to post this in the GEPs and the so many attachments. whereas kung ito ay na plano ng maige, one time trasaction lang sana - which is public bidding - less cost and lesser and pagod and sakit ng ulo.
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:12 am

amang'65 wrote:while indeed that there may be no violations if repeat order may be done several times provided that it does not exceed 25% of the original contract, etc, but in my point of view, this is a result of POOR PROCUREMENT PLANNING, rule II states that "...planning should be meticulously and judiciously done" meaning wisely and carefully, so therefore in your APP several repeat orders will be appearing there? eh kung ganon, you might have as well consolidated these so many repeat orders and come up with another public bidding!!! What's the idea of having so many repeat orders, its just a waste of time, tax payer's money and supplies kasi ganon din you'll have to post this in the GEPs and the so many attachments. whereas kung ito ay na plano ng maige, one time trasaction lang sana - which is public bidding - less cost and lesser and pagod and sakit ng ulo.

I agree, amang'65.

Allowing several repeat orders, even if within the 6-month period from effectivity of original contract and 25% of the quantity, will be inviting for its abuse (Splitting of Contract/Requisitions/Purchase Orders), aside from being a reflection of very poor PROCUREMENT PLANNING by the procuring entity.
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by riddler on Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:40 am

i agree with you amang and RDV na dapat talaga careful planning talaga ang gawin ng PE to do away with this Repeat Orders, but going back to the Big Q, does the IRR allows a cumulative Repeat Orders up to 25% at different point of time or circumstances?
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by amang'65 on Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:11 am

riddler wrote:i agree with you amang and RDV na dapat talaga careful planning talaga ang gawin ng PE to do away with this Repeat Orders, but going back to the Big Q, does the IRR allows a cumulative Repeat Orders up to 25% at different point of time or circumstances?


as far as the question is concern, maaaring walang violation sa provisions ng repeat order iho, kasi ika nga ng mga iba the law is SILENT!!!, and besides yes we can use this as our reason or justification in case there are questions later, lalo na kung "un-intentional" yung pag repeat order natin ng several times. but to do this intentionally (which may be reflected in your APP) is a different story, because it speaks of our conscience already, tayo kaya ay makakatulog ng mahimbing if we intentionally made sooooo many repeat orders when in fact it should be better if this was done through public bidding?

now the question, how do we determine if it was done intentionally or not?

hindi lang pala result ng poor procurement planning, sir RDV, kundi VERY POOR procurement planning as you mentioned, heh.he.he. Very Happy
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by charlie brown on Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:32 am

riddler wrote:amen charlie brown. kampi na tayo dito. Very Happy

he he. No problem riddler. In procurement as in politics, there are no permanent adversary Very Happy
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by charlie brown on Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:42 am

amang'65 wrote:
riddler wrote:i agree with you amang and RDV na dapat talaga careful planning talaga ang gawin ng PE to do away with this Repeat Orders, but going back to the Big Q, does the IRR allows a cumulative Repeat Orders up to 25% at different point of time or circumstances?


as far as the question is concern, maaaring walang violation sa provisions ng repeat order iho, kasi ika nga ng mga iba the law is SILENT!!!, and besides yes we can use this as our reason or justification in case there are questions later, lalo na kung "un-intentional" yung pag repeat order natin ng several times. but to do this intentionally (which may be reflected in your APP) is a different story, because it speaks of our conscience already, tayo kaya ay makakatulog ng mahimbing if we intentionally made sooooo many repeat orders when in fact it should be better if this was done through public bidding?

now the question, how do we determine if it was done intentionally or not?

hindi lang pala result ng poor procurement planning, sir RDV, kundi VERY POOR procurement planning as you mentioned, heh.he.he. Very Happy

procurement planning is the hinge upon which the success of the procurement reform rests. If we just the reflect on it, among the key changes is the procurement reform is the way procurement has shifted from "reactive" to "proactive". However, there could be instances no matter how detailed or careful the procurement planning was done there will be instances when a repeat order may occur...and to a much lesser degree a repeat to the repeat. As i have mentioned, a predetermined repeat order (when you have already included a series of repeat orders for a specific procurement - it becomes a red flag) would not jive well to the concept. If it has been determined beforehand that a series of repeat orders will have to be made a single competitive bidding with the delivery requirements are stated on the Schedule of Delivery would suffice without even doing a single repeat oder.
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by amang'65 on Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:55 pm

charlie brown wrote:
amang'65 wrote:
riddler wrote:i agree with you amang and RDV na dapat talaga careful planning talaga ang gawin ng PE to do away with this Repeat Orders, but going back to the Big Q, does the IRR allows a cumulative Repeat Orders up to 25% at different point of time or circumstances?


as far as the question is concern, maaaring walang violation sa provisions ng repeat order iho, kasi ika nga ng mga iba the law is SILENT!!!, and besides yes we can use this as our reason or justification in case there are questions later, lalo na kung "un-intentional" yung pag repeat order natin ng several times. but to do this intentionally (which may be reflected in your APP) is a different story, because it speaks of our conscience already, tayo kaya ay makakatulog ng mahimbing if we intentionally made sooooo many repeat orders when in fact it should be better if this was done through public bidding?

now the question, how do we determine if it was done intentionally or not?

hindi lang pala result ng poor procurement planning, sir RDV, kundi VERY POOR procurement planning as you mentioned, heh.he.he. Very Happy

procurement planning is the hinge upon which the success of the procurement reform rests. If we just the reflect on it, among the key changes is the procurement reform is the way procurement has shifted from "reactive" to "proactive". However, there could be instances no matter how detailed or careful the procurement planning was done there will be instances when a repeat order may occur...and to a much lesser degree a repeat to the repeat. As i have mentioned, a predetermined repeat order (when you have already included a series of repeat orders for a specific procurement - it becomes a red flag) would not jive well to the concept. If it has been determined beforehand that a series of repeat orders will have to be made a single competitive bidding with the delivery requirements are stated on the Schedule of Delivery would suffice without even doing a single repeat oder.



as to your issue especially to the underlined statement, precisely there are instances that a repeat order may occur, but again this repeat order is still part of a carefully planned procurement, which may have been based on historical issues or records that on this particular time of the year or event, repeat order maybe needed in order to replenish such items/goods, otherwise other methods may have been reflected in the procurement plan or even not, that due to emergency cases or whatever, such method of procurement should be employed.
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by charlie brown on Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:31 pm

amang'65 wrote:
charlie brown wrote:
amang'65 wrote:
riddler wrote:i agree with you amang and RDV na dapat talaga careful planning talaga ang gawin ng PE to do away with this Repeat Orders, but going back to the Big Q, does the IRR allows a cumulative Repeat Orders up to 25% at different point of time or circumstances?


as far as the question is concern, maaaring walang violation sa provisions ng repeat order iho, kasi ika nga ng mga iba the law is SILENT!!!, and besides yes we can use this as our reason or justification in case there are questions later, lalo na kung "un-intentional" yung pag repeat order natin ng several times. but to do this intentionally (which may be reflected in your APP) is a different story, because it speaks of our conscience already, tayo kaya ay makakatulog ng mahimbing if we intentionally made sooooo many repeat orders when in fact it should be better if this was done through public bidding?

now the question, how do we determine if it was done intentionally or not?

hindi lang pala result ng poor procurement planning, sir RDV, kundi VERY POOR procurement planning as you mentioned, heh.he.he. Very Happy

procurement planning is the hinge upon which the success of the procurement reform rests. If we just the reflect on it, among the key changes is the procurement reform is the way procurement has shifted from "reactive" to "proactive". However, there could be instances no matter how detailed or careful the procurement planning was done there will be instances when a repeat order may occur...and to a much lesser degree a repeat to the repeat. As i have mentioned, a predetermined repeat order (when you have already included a series of repeat orders for a specific procurement - it becomes a red flag) would not jive well to the concept. If it has been determined beforehand that a series of repeat orders will have to be made a single competitive bidding with the delivery requirements are stated on the Schedule of Delivery would suffice without even doing a single repeat oder.



as to your issue especially to the underlined statement, precisely there are instances that a repeat order may occur, but again this repeat order is still part of a carefully planned procurement, which may have been based on historical issues or records that on this particular time of the year or event, repeat order maybe needed in order to replenish such items/goods, otherwise other methods may have been reflected in the procurement plan or even not, that due to emergency cases or whatever, such method of procurement should be employed.

My take is that a reapeat order cannot be planned in advance (come to think of it wala namang plan na after the fact pala ano). If the need for the procurement has been determined beforehand then this could be captured in a competitive bidding with the Schedule of Requirements stating the periods, quantities and places where the delivery has to be made. precisely the repeat order takes care of unplanned procurements arising from a previous procurement donem through a competitive bidding.
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by amang'65 on Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:53 pm

charlie brown wrote:
amang'65 wrote:
charlie brown wrote:
amang'65 wrote:
riddler wrote:i agree with you amang and RDV na dapat talaga careful planning talaga ang gawin ng PE to do away with this Repeat Orders, but going back to the Big Q, does the IRR allows a cumulative Repeat Orders up to 25% at different point of time or circumstances?


as far as the question is concern, maaaring walang violation sa provisions ng repeat order iho, kasi ika nga ng mga iba the law is SILENT!!!, and besides yes we can use this as our reason or justification in case there are questions later, lalo na kung "un-intentional" yung pag repeat order natin ng several times. but to do this intentionally (which may be reflected in your APP) is a different story, because it speaks of our conscience already, tayo kaya ay makakatulog ng mahimbing if we intentionally made sooooo many repeat orders when in fact it should be better if this was done through public bidding?

now the question, how do we determine if it was done intentionally or not?

hindi lang pala result ng poor procurement planning, sir RDV, kundi VERY POOR procurement planning as you mentioned, heh.he.he. Very Happy

procurement planning is the hinge upon which the success of the procurement reform rests. If we just the reflect on it, among the key changes is the procurement reform is the way procurement has shifted from "reactive" to "proactive". However, there could be instances no matter how detailed or careful the procurement planning was done there will be instances when a repeat order may occur...and to a much lesser degree a repeat to the repeat. As i have mentioned, a predetermined repeat order (when you have already included a series of repeat orders for a specific procurement - it becomes a red flag) would not jive well to the concept. If it has been determined beforehand that a series of repeat orders will have to be made a single competitive bidding with the delivery requirements are stated on the Schedule of Delivery would suffice without even doing a single repeat oder.



as to your issue especially to the underlined statement, precisely there are instances that a repeat order may occur, but again this repeat order is still part of a carefully planned procurement, which may have been based on historical issues or records that on this particular time of the year or event, repeat order maybe needed in order to replenish such items/goods, otherwise other methods may have been reflected in the procurement plan or even not, that due to emergency cases or whatever, such method of procurement should be employed.

My take is that a reapeat order cannot be planned in advance (come to think of it wala namang plan na after the fact pala ano). If the need for the procurement has been determined beforehand then this could be captured in a competitive bidding with the Schedule of Requirements stating the periods, quantities and places where the delivery has to be made. precisely the repeat order takes care of unplanned procurements arising from a previous procurement donem through a competitive bidding.


why not charlie brown? otherwise that is what should have been stated in the IRR that "for unplanned procurements you may resort to repeat order" heh.he. Very Happy come likewise to think of it, suppose during that schedule of delivery eventually the supplies is no longer needed or maybe a small quantity is all we need, eh di sana nagrepeat order na lang sana tayo mas economical pa. the idea for repeat order is to replenish, and for repeat order we may negotiate with the supplier to lower the price, because under repeat order price must be equal or lower, unlike for public bidding the amount is fixed. true this may be captured in one single bidding and schedule the delivery dates we want, but take note under SEC. 48. Alternative Methods. - Subject to the prior approval of the Head of the Procuring Entity or his duly authorized representative, and whenever justified by the conditions provided in this Act, the Procuring Entity may, in order to promote economy and efficiency, resort to any of the following alternative methods of Procurement.

so may take, case to case but definitely we can plan repeat order.

wat do u tink PKjr (ligaw na binatog), pasilipsilip ka lang dyan ha!! joint na!!! Very Happy
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:11 pm

Well its better if someone could make a formal query on this, as you can see me and nirwam have conflicting idea but is within the same office.

All I can say is that as long as no violation pwede, kung may ibang paraan so that we will not resort in such repeat repeat orders, much better.

I think we have all agreed that it is possible provided that the conditions are complied with.

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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by sunriser431 on Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:53 pm

For purpose of discussion. guys need your opinion bounce
Is there a need to have separate approved ABC to do another Repeat order? or the previous awarded contract through competitive bidding will serve as the requirements?
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:08 am

I think separate ABC due to the fact that this is a new procurement dependent upon the CPB.

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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by charlie brown on Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:12 pm

sunriser431 wrote:For purpose of discussion. guys need your opinion bounce
Is there a need to have separate approved ABC to do another Repeat order? or the previous awarded contract through competitive bidding will serve as the requirements?

I think the ABC is required in repeat order and it should be cognizant of the conditions set forth e.g. equal or less than the unit price in the original contract; not more thatn 25% of the original quantity.
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by Niwram on Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:27 pm

sunriser431 wrote:For purpose of discussion. guys need your opinion bounce
Is there a need to have separate approved ABC to do another Repeat order? or the previous awarded contract through competitive bidding will serve as the requirements?

What I understand under section 51 of the revised IRR there is a need for a separate ABC to do another repeat order. because it was stated there that when provided in the APP, meaning there is already a plan to replenish goods procured under a contract previously awarded through competitive Bidding.
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by msm326 on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:32 am

In the LGU, sometimes it is really hard to be strict with the APP and em thankful that we have the law and most of them are now complying with it.
msm326 Very Happy
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:40 pm

riddler wrote:i agree with you amang and RDV na dapat talaga careful planning talaga ang gawin ng PE to do away with this Repeat Orders, but going back to the Big Q, does the IRR allows a cumulative Repeat Orders up to 25% at different point of time or circumstances?

The provision is silent whether we can have several repeat order that comply with the conditions. What we know is that the only thing that may affect a re repeat order is the condition of splitting of contracts.

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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by marriola on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:53 pm

hola damas y caballeros,
thanks for your comment and thanks too to ligaw na binatog.
i guess we are safe if we resort to public bidding anew.
hasta la vista
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:38 pm

marriola wrote:hola damas y caballeros,
thanks for your comment and thanks too to ligaw na binatog.
i guess we are safe if we resort to public bidding anew.
hasta la vista

Yup the safest way to do it is through Competitive Public Bidding, even though the law is silent, it can still be interpreted by the proper authority based on the letters or spirit of the provision.

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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by Niwram on Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:24 pm

marriola wrote:hola damas y caballeros,
thanks for your comment and thanks too to ligaw na binatog.
i guess we are safe if we resort to public bidding anew.
hasta la vista

i'm just wondering why you don't want to resort to Alternative mode of procurement.
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by sunriser431 on Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:49 pm

marriola wrote:hola damas y caballeros,
thanks for your comment and thanks too to ligaw na binatog.
i guess we are safe if we resort to public bidding anew.
hasta la vista
so there you have it guys, its simple, public bidding is still the default mode. bounce
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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:02 pm

sunriser431 wrote:
marriola wrote:hola damas y caballeros,
thanks for your comment and thanks too to ligaw na binatog.
i guess we are safe if we resort to public bidding anew.
hasta la vista
so there you have it guys, its simple, public bidding is still the default mode. bounce

We are not changing the default mode. what was given was only an option after a repeat order, because the question was after a repeat order, can a PE resort again to another repeat order?.

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Re: REPEAT ORDER

Post by sunriser431 on Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:59 pm

Ligaw na Binatog wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:
marriola wrote:hola damas y caballeros,
thanks for your comment and thanks too to ligaw na binatog.
i guess we are safe if we resort to public bidding anew.
hasta la vista
so there you have it guys, its simple, public bidding is still the default mode. bounce

We are not changing the default mode. what was given was only an option after a repeat order, because the question was after a repeat order, can a PE resort again to another repeat order?.
I have no further comment. Peace bounce
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